Competition Feedback Requested

Post by **Tami** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:28 pm

The admins have been discussing the weekly competitions we hold on the forum, and here is what we'd like to know:

1. Would you like to see the wallpaper competition split into two categories: Level 1 for beginners and Level 2 for those who are more advanced. Entrants could move to Level 2 after they win a specified number of Level 1 contests.

2. Introduction of an avatar contest, with the winning avatars added to the avatar libraries on the two forums.

3. Does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions they would like to see in the way of weekly contests?

4. It was suggested adding an option to the user info on this forum which shows others how many competitions you've entered, and/or shows the number of competitions you have won. Yes? No? Just show the number of wins? Show both numbers?

Wayne · Post by **Wayne** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:15 pm

I personally think the Level 1 and Level 2 thing is a GREAT idea. I don't enter because mainly I don't know how to do any of that stuff and sometimes time just doesn't permit to learn new things all the time. This way people are advancing but moving into harder competetions while others can advance at their own rate.

As far was the number of entrys/wins I think it would be best to show a level of winning instead of the number itself. example being if someone won 1-5 wp competitions they have a level of 1 if they win 6-10 they have a level 2 so on so forth. "Level 1" could be given certain titles like from wp rookie to wb master maker and such.

I think it would be better not showing the numbers especailly the entry/won numbers. Think about me for instance.... being the horible graphix person I am...

/dry.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\'<_<\' /> ... I would end up having like 982375983479entries/0wins you know lol...it just isn't much for the ego lol

Just my takes....

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:28 pm

Exactly what he ^^ said except I'd like to maybe see images given out (Almost like at [url=\"http://www.cgtalk.com\"][u]CGTalk[/u][/url]) and that one image would link to all of the wins.

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Post by **Shydragonchic** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:30 pm

1. yes

2. yes

3. The avatar one is a good idea, but anything else I can think of right now has more limited potential...like there's only so many emoticons you can make before they all look the same.

4. hmmm putting the actual numbers in might not be a good idea, I agree with Josh and Kentie on levels being shown.

Post by **Scott** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:47 am

For the numbers, maybe just the number you've won and not the number entered.

I don't want to overcrowd it over there. We could take quote out...I dunno.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:36 pm

I'm fine with taking the quote out... IMO I would let the user put the quote in their sig under their sig banner or whatever.

Wayne · Post by **Wayne** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:40 pm

personally I think the quote is just takin up space..... I would like a small picture for the levels .... kinda like you have the staff picture thingy.... whatever you wanta call it ...the ones that say like "network owner" and that mess ... have those for the differnt levels you acheive.

any agreements ? flames?

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Post by **Scott** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:01 pm

An idea that I've been thinking about is something similar to the warn system. (Obviously, not about warning) Members progress up the scale as decided by the staff. Everyone will be able to see other people's levels, but not change them (duh).

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:56 pm

I like that idea

Post by **Shydragonchic** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:18 pm

Yes similar to the warn system is exactly what I was thinking...but different enough so that they don't confuse forum newbies?

Adrasteia · Post by **Adrasteia** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:25 pm

i like the idea of splitting the competition (wallpapers) in two. my only thoughts are:
1. will level 1 still have to comply with the current guidelines? (all work in the wp has to be original)
2. for level 2 wallpapers could we extend the time that competition runs to say at least two weeks? maybe more like cgtalk........i suggest that because i feel it will - or should - give those competing in level two the time to hopefully create even more stunning wallpapers. i imagine the themes will be harder - as they have been getting lately - so would hope we could take a month to make one maybe, dunno. i just think with those on that level the skills they use take a while to be put together - all the various programs they use and adjustments....esp for the 3d people -and those competing in level 2 will be or will have branched out into 3d work as i am and will need that extra time to create the quality of work expected.

i really like the points system similiar to cgtalk idea....think it could be encouraging and is also an easy way to tell when someone is ready to progress to level 1.
will those competiting in level 2 of the competition be excluded from level 1? i think its only fair for those in level 1.

not to sure about the avatar idea....seems like it might crowd things up a bit. how about, in conjunction with the banner comp people are invited to submit accompanying avatars for their design? i'm sure though once people see killadownloads live and all the different things they can submit - from avatars to brush sets, 3d models to banners - that they will start submitting on there.
perhaps to encourage that we could also have a counter that shows how many items they have submitted to killadownloads? that would also help the staff see at a quick glance who our most productive members are. the more i think about having that type of counter - say under the win points thing - the more i like it

/smile.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\':)\' />

nem

Electrix · Post by **Electrix** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:47 pm

the idea of having the thing like the warning system is good, the staff u it or you get a certain amount for winning a comp? and if a person has over a certain amount, they can enter level 2 of the competitions etc.

Post by **Scott** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:31 am

Yes shy, I think something will have to be done to stop newbies getting confused. Perhaps making a page about it like we have for new members.

I think giving level 2 longer isn't unreasonable, but we'll see what happens. We could start level 2 at the middle of the week and run it for 2 weeks. This would stop it coliding with the level 1 comp.

I agree that its only fair for those in level 2 to be excluded from level 1. I was contemplating switching it around...so people start at level 2 and are promoted to level 1 (just an idea...probably not very logical).

Avatar as an optional sounds good, what do others think about that?

Not sure how the rating will work yet. Perhaps the staff can increase it when they feel that member contributed a piece of work (anywhere? or comps only?) which is level 2 standard. After 5 pieces of this standard...the user's level goes up to 2.

Most likely the quote will be taken out of there <-- to free up some space.

All just ponderings, nothing decided yet. As a bit of info, the forum will be upgraded to 2.1 shortly...which is the version we'll be modding (severly) to incorporate this (and more)

/bigwink.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\';)\' />

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:54 am

*erases buzzards name on his name tag to change it from "Vulture" to "Mod Bird"*

Post by **Tami** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:58 pm

If we start users off on Level 1, and go upwards, that leaves the option open to adding more levels of achievement. Only Level 1 people can compete in Level 1 competitions, and Level 3 people wouldn't be allowed to compete in Level 2 competitions, etc.

The same guidelines would apply to Level 1 in regards to googled images, unless there was a specific competition where googled images are allowed, and then that information would be added to the initial post about that particular competition. Level 1 competitions will probably focus more on learning different skills and tool sets than on a specific picture theme.

I disagree that adding an avatar competition would clutter things up; I think it would give artists a chance to hone their detail work, as well as offer a smaller surface they would have to worry about covering.

As for a time period, it wouldn't be a problem extending it, but I don't know if they would be month long contests for a Level 2 competition; perhaps level 5-I see maybe a two week turnaround for Level 2 competitions.

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:54 pm

I know right now people don't even take all week to do their entries.. most of them whip them up the night before the contest ends.

Adrasteia · Post by **Adrasteia** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:58 pm

two weeks for level two sounds great - and i like the focus level 1 will create on developing skills.

maybe teh avatar comp wont clutter things up - i remember i thought things were cluttered when the wp comp was added but it was an easy adjustment to make.

i'd still like to see some sort of submission count displayed under our names in regards to killadownloads....i think its encouraging to see how much work you have contributed and like i said, i think it will help the staff when considering new staff members.

it'll be great to see the wp contests eventually progress into level 5 etc lol - hopefully that level isnt far off for us.

nem

us3rX · Post by **us3rX** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:41 pm

1. No, not at the moment anyways, we dont get enough entries as it is, unless its a "popular" theme and splitting them in to two would just drop the entries more.

2. Like i said else where, this would open up to people that hate having to cover, 500x100 or 1024x768, by only having to worry about 100x100 is alot easier to make

3. *saves this for later*

4. Maybe something like this,

Banner Comp: 10/9/90%(Entered/Won/Percent)
Wallpaper Comp: 10/7/70%(Entered/Won/Percent)

us3rX

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Wayne · Post by **Wayne** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:32 pm

numbers will lower my ago lol like I said for me that would show something like this:
Banner Comp: 654/1/0.15%(Entered/Won/Percent)
Wallpaper Comp: 321/1/0.31%(Entered/Won/Percent)

/shocking.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\'(ack)\' />

Adrasteia · Post by **Adrasteia** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:52 pm

why not keep it simpler:
banner wins: 12
wallpaper wins level 1: 7
wallpaper wins level 2: 3
avatar wins : 8
killasubmissions: 12

?

Electrix · Post by **Electrix** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:33 pm

i have no idea on the whole 'win count' thing, but er.. for the ones who currently enter the wp comps etc. and have good graphix skills (no offence intended to anyone) would they start on lvl1 or what? but I kind of agree with jer, we dont have enough entries already to split it into levels..

Josh · Post by **Josh** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:37 am

[quote name=\'Electrix\' date=\'Sep 15 2005, 12:33 AM\']i have no idea on the whole 'win count' thing, but er.. for the ones who currently enter the wp comps etc. and have good graphix skills (no offence intended to anyone) would they start on lvl1 or what? but I kind of agree with jer, we dont have enough entries already to split it into levels..
[right][post=\"28608\"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

That's what I said too! ;\ Jer is stealing the spotlight. *smacks him*

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Post by **Tami** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:35 am

On the flipside of the coin, perhaps there would be more entries if people knew they didn't have to compete with more advanced artists?

us3rX · Post by **us3rX** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:47 am

Nem, that way would work, but we dont want to make the area over there
<------- any bigger then what we have too

/blum.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\':P\' /> its already kind of big

I am not stealing the spot light, but i am the one that suggested it else where

/bigwink.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\';)\' />

/blum.gif\' class=\'bbc_emoticon\' alt=\':P\' />

us3rX

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Post by **Shydragonchic** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:03 am

I'm undecided on things like Number of killasubmissions....it would be great to recognize contributions like this...but....one person could submit a large number of small items and another could submit a small number of rather significant projects that represent a lot of work...in cases like this, numbers won't show that these two contributors are equal. But, there has to be some way of showing/recognizing contributions that would be fair.

As for the number of people who enter the competitions, this is something we should work on....finding a way to get the rest of our 400 some members involved. Unfortunately I have no suggestions on how to do this for now.

I also worry, like kentie, about numbers affecting people's egos....using numbers to represent wins...doesn't reflect the almost wins or [b]degree of improvement[/b](which is what we're about).

Adrasteia · Post by **Adrasteia** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:55 am

all very good points....there are so many flip sides to this.
shy your right about submissions but the alternative - in my mind - is to introduce a rating system on the download site and have that overal rating figure reflected under our names etc....although that also relies on participation.
splitting the contest in two could easily encourage more entries or thin them out even more....who knows.
why not just trial it for a month and see how it goes?
i dont know how to get those 400 active either.....submitting tutorials brought in new people but not more participation. beyond doing that i'm stumped lol.
i had hoped the member of the month would reflect a persons degree of improvement like you mentioned shy, but that seems to have quickly lost momentum....rift has had i think three or four people ask him questions....now i know hes not unpopular but motm just seems to be waning in participation too now.
i'm hoping that once people can submit work like on deviant art we'll get more activity....no guarantees though
nem

Post by **Tami** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:30 am

Another thought that just occured to me...is using our tutorials as competition themes. It might work, won't know until we try it, so I think we may give levels a try.

Darkfire · Post by **Darkfire** » Sat May 20, 2006 9:20 am

I also think that spliting would lower the entrys so maybe we could. um... have 1 competition and take the skill point idea and then vote with either handycaps or we could split the vote between beople with high wins and low wins say 6 people enter with levels 1 4 8 3 2 5 then the people from 1 2 and 3 are 1 set for the votes and the people from 4 5 8 are the other and you gain levels with each win...

also for other competition ideas we could have timed competitions like www.3dfightclub.com or we could have size limits with theams like pixle art 32x32 or timed animation like have a 15 second animation based off some theme. For the web competition idea it could be broken down into just layout and they all have to have the same content same pages ect so the competition is more on the design part insted of wrighting. Photoshop alteration competitions kinda like on www.worth1000.com where either the immages can be provided or can be googled but must be altered based on a theme. then theres always hand drawing. you could even have stuff like a random website and then make a new layout for the site thing + that could be helpfull cuz then after the owner of the site can be contacted and they can buy the layouts made in competiton if they want. basicly that would get killagraphix out more and more renoune and probly get alot more sponsers and the members have a chance of selling their work and making a bit of money.

but ya thats just me coming up with random stuff comments are welcome

to@ds · Post by **to@ds** » Sat May 20, 2006 11:08 pm

I like the idea of spliting the competitions into different "levels", but rather than calling them Level 1, Level 2, why not just have "Beginer, Intermediate, Expert" or something along those lines. People can then enter the comp of their skill level like as you sugested.

As for the system like the warn..................hmmmm, this is a tough one. From my experience systems like that cause to many problems I find, between moderators and members, and amongst members themselves. Sometimes favouritism can come into play where you see people's rating going up and up for no real reason, then you have members wondering why this is happaneing and wanting to know why they havent gone up. Not only that, but I've seen members of other forums using these level systems to claim that they are better than others, like sometimes how you see people thinking post counts are important and that the larger your count, the better you are in the forum comunity, which as we all know isnt true.

I think that each member is just as important as the next, and so to have some members on a "higher" level than others to me seems unfair. Its one of those fun ideas that becomes a nightmare I find.

As for the win's and losses thing, I dont mind. In other forums Im a member of, I see people put their win/lose/draw ratings in their signatures, usualy under their image so I dont know, I suppose people could do it like that here, or you could impliment a new system like you proposed, personaly I dont see the value of it, its another one of those things that ends up becoming "Ive got more wins than you, so what you say isnt valid" and I know that the people here at KG arent like that, but you know what I mean.

I do think an upload counter would be good though as lets say your browsing the forum and see that someone has uploaded I dont know, 5 items, and so out of curiosity you click to find out what these 5 items are, and hopefully stay on the new page and also view other peoples stuff which has been uploaded. It could be a nice tool to draw people into using the items made available for download, and also maybe make them think about adding their own stuff for the community.

As for the avatar idea, I dont really think its worth holding competitions to choose which ones get added to the forums. Im sure the staff here would be more than able to vet what people want to add and then make a choice on whether it does or dose not belong here at KG.

I think you've put forward some good ideas that Im keen to try out and see how they develope, but I am really against the idea of this level system. I think once you start doing things like that, it kind of goes against the idea of a community because in some ways you are segragting people. We dont need a number by our names because no mater what your skill level is, everyone is just as an important member as the next person, level systems dont convey that idea and I allways got the impression that equality was something that was important here at KG.

God I hope this post dosent sound like a rant, cus its not meant to be

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Post by **Scott** » Sun May 21, 2006 3:04 am

Well this is quite a revive.

To be honest, I'm still opposed to splitting the competitions at the moment, simply because there isn't enough interest to run 3 at a time. I think toads hits the nail on the head here that this would likely cause problems between people on different levels.

I think perhaps we need to take a step back and look at where we want KG to go. I've added in a few things such as showing what graphics people have uploaded in their profile (I don't know if anyone ever uses this?). Is this the kind of stuff people want more of? Should we just hold fire and give the forum some time to develop?

Kinda turning this into a general feedback thread, but there is nothing wrong with that....just as long as someone replies

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Sylo-X- · Post by **Sylo-X-** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:31 pm

We should so have a signature competition...just an idea

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